Thursday, December 29, 2005

Scary Comparisons

I have learned a lot over the past month about a certain little company called Amway. I don't want to dredge up WHY I learned a lot about Amway, but there have been some frightening comparisons drawn between them and Mary Kay, and while I feel I can refute most of them (they are nowhere near alike), it's disturbing to hear that some of the Amway lingo, when it was at its peak, is so similar to some of the things I've heard (and said myself) in Mary Kay.

Bottom line, I have no problem with encouraging people to think positively--about life, about their business, about basically everything. Not in such a way that you deny reality, not in a self-duping manner, but in a way that allows you to still function even when you experience setbacks or obstacles or frustrations. If I had thrown in the towel any time things got rough in my business over the past two-ish years, I'd have quit long ago. And if I'd quit, I'd never have experienced what I am experiencing now, which is great satisfaction and decent financial compensation.

Because, bottom line, one is very influenced by a) the thoughts and opinions of others and b) one's own thoughts and opinions. I know we like to think that we don't care if others say mean things about us or the things we care about, but let me tell you--I came across some scathing websites about Mary Kay and it really put me in a funk. Not because I believed them (I believed their stories, of course, but not their conclusions that MK as a whole sucks the big one), but because I was so sad that those stories even existed.

And of course people criticize Amway, saying that anyone who had stories like that didn't work hard enough, etc., which makes me bite my tongue, because that's what I said in response to the stories I read about MK. But the truth is this--these two companies are completely different. They operate differently. One sells a product, and one claims to sell a product but is really selling motivational material to keep people thinking about selling product, and encouraging them to sign up more more more more people. One rewards you for the work you do, and one rewards you for work you don't do, or fails to reward you at all.

Bottom line, I could explain what I do, where the money comes from and how and how much, to any average person in about a half an hour to forty-five minutes. In its entirety. Sure, there are a few technicalities that really take time to get to know, but in essence I could make you feel as though you understand what's going on with Mary Kay, and you'd be able to make a logical decision. The key here being logical--not emotional, not out of trust (because truthfully, over half the people I share this information with are total strangers, who may or may not have even be referred to me by someone we know in common--they may just be people I met randomly and struck up a conversation with over the produce aisle or something)--I certainly don't make them feel like their lives are crap and they need to do something about it or die, broke and alone.

As for feeling required to buy stuff and go to events, in my experience, sure, MK recommends you attend meetings, regional conferences, and the big SEMINAR. Are you required? Absolutely not. But the real crux of it is, why go? Not to get fired up--I can fire myself up quite well, thank you. The key is TO GET TRAINING. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that when you first start doing something, anything, you come into it with only a minimal level of skill. Maybe you have some personal aptitude, but other than that, you're a rookie. SO, you need training. I think maybe that's the difference between these Amway/Quixtar/Team events and ours.....it doesn't sound like there's much TRAINING because, well, at least as far as I can tell, there isn't much to train about. You learn how to "show the plan" to other people and convince them to sign up. That's really about it. Once you've got that, what else is there to learn? All the events in MK I've attended, from the very small to the very large, include actual bona fide training. Inspiration? Yes. Motivation? Of course. But mostly because you feel more equipped after going to these things and are ready to go out and give it a good shot.

Oh yeah, and by the way, you don't have to buy any motivational stuff in Mary Kay. Does the company offer it? Certainly, for purchase on the InTouch website. And many of the National Sales Directors have audio and video tapes/DVDs available on their personal websites that you can also purchase. But that's just it--they're AVAILABLE. I wouldn't even know about most of it if I hadn't skimmed around looking for interesting tidbits. They aren't mentioned at meetings and they're not for sale there, either.

I don't know. It makes the brain swim. I don't like making connections between stuff like Amway and Mary Kay--and I certainly don't like other people voicing them. It just makes me angry.....like it's slander or something.....people talking about what they don't know. Then I get all weirded out, because I'm sure that's what Amway people say in response to criticism, too. And in truth, isn't that what we all say in response to criticism, when we're not necessarily prepared to deal with accepting it?

(and my brain argues, but I am prepared, and MK still is okay!!)

*editing here to provide some clarification in case anyone is interested, since this entry sparked such comments*

I wrote this entry to my blog because of some friends and family who are getting involved in an Amway derivative company called The Team. I really do wish them all the luck and fortune in the world in this endeavor, but as I have explained above, my husband and I have some reservations about it and we choose not to be involved at this time. I acknowledge that every company is going to have positives and negatives. For us, there are too many unanswered questions and questions that are not answered in what we view to be a positive light. Again, I hope those involved get exactly what they want out of it, as I'm sure they wish the same for me in my endeavors. My uneasiness with some of the similarities was the prompt for this entry--and my sadness that anyone ever had a negative experience in MK (or Amway/Quixtar/Team, for that matter)--not my unbridled hatred for said companies. Sorry for the confusion, if there was any.

25 Comments:

At 6:07 PM, Blogger truth said...

Well having been one who was in Quixtar aka Amway I can tell you that MK sounds nothing alike. They will tell you that the motivational material is optional, but I have personally been taught to not sign up anyone who refuses to buy it. The seminars that we attended had more rah-rah then teaching, if any teaching at all. Good post very informative.

I run a blog on my experience with Quixtar at http://amquixinandout.blogspot.com

 
At 12:34 AM, Blogger FREEDOM QUEEN said...

Mk is doing okay? compared to who? not Artistry (quixtars beaty and skin line) have you checked the numbers lately? quixtars doing billions on top of billions. no one is forced to buy into the teaching system? There are tones of different education systems with quixtar. you just got into a bad one which has nothing to do with quixtar, remember quixtar is a supply company.get your facts straight. I know people who got into mary Kay and had to buy all these cosmetics and never sold most of it.For those who were not successful in quixtar either did not do the work or their just losers who quit.and i thank you because thats just more money for me.

 
At 1:22 AM, Blogger Jesus Hates Quixtar said...

quixtar is a scam and a cult "freedom queen"

jesus doesn't like liars.

look deep into your soul. you know quixtar is wrong.

you make the baby jesus cry

 
At 1:35 AM, Blogger FREEDOM QUEEN said...

you need some help to use jesus and hate in the same sentence is crazy. quixtar is a supply company who do you know works for quixtar stupid.

 
At 10:58 AM, Blogger Jobless2007 said...

Hmmm Jesus hates Quixtar. You obviously don't know anything about it. Get some eductation loser.

Oh yeah, why don't you go to a conference, then make an educated decision. Why would 30,000 people gather into a collisum if it was a cult. It's all optional too. You don't have to go the those or buy any "motivational" CD's. If you want to run a business, don't you have to learn how to do it. It's like going to school. Are you going to do good in school if you don't attend class or buy the books. Hmmm. I think that's what we're taught. It's the same thing. Why would we be on the Better Business Beareu Website and Federal Trade Commission. Hmmm.

 
At 11:06 AM, Blogger Will said...

Issa said "people talking about what they don't know". Pot meet kettle, kettle meet pot.

Give me a freakin break! "Oh my MLM is better than Your MLM."

Get a clue! So Q* has meetings, seminars and is criticized for it, but its OK that Mary kay has meeting, and BIG seminars too, cause they're optional. Yea, guess what, so are Q*'s.

Issa said "I can motivate myself thank you very much"... you know I've never known a wealthy person who said that.

So we get slammed for having training tools, but MK has the SAMETHING! But once again, its different cause they're optional. Ding-dong. Hello? SO ARE OURS! Could SOMEONE be talking out of hearsay?? Is someone speaking from personal experience or negative BS hype! Once again "people talking about what they don't know".

Truth, what frickin team were you a part of? Told not to register anyone who refuses to buy any tools! What a load of crap! I've NEVER - NEVER - NEVER been taught that! What prospect is gonna agree to start buying tools before they're even On the team! I don't force anyone to buy anything! We may Promote the training tools, but we don't Force it or Require it! If your team did, they were Wrong, and I hope there people all quit!

And Issa, someone asked me once, "is this a pyramid?" and I asked them, "well what do you mean by pyramid?" and they said "well like Mary Kay"! That is the God's honest truth. And you know what I did - I defended Mary Kay! I explained how both MK and Q* are simply network marketing business. We get paid on volume, not on head hunting, etc.

Did you notice the DSA ad in USA Today, with Q* and MK right next to each other. You need to figure out what side of the fence you're on and stop contributing to the Negative HYPE and misconceptions about Newtork marketing businesses. Your post does nothing but perpetuate the negative connotation associated with our model of business!

 
At 11:15 AM, Blogger Issa said...

I'm surprised this has brought up so many hits. Thanks for the interest. I am not, nor ever have been, a part of Amway or Quixtar. I have relatives and friends who are getting on board with Quixtar and I was simply posting my thoughts about it vs. my experience in MK, after having been presented "the business plan" by their upline. If you read the rest of my blog, you would see I am enjoying myself quite well in the direct sales industry--I'm not knocking it at all. I think it's a great concept for anyone who has the tenacity and teachability to go for it.

Also, I am not bashing QUIXTAR per se. My friends and relatives are getting involved with "The Team," and I found their business plan to be rather vague and manipulative. Quixtar is a legitimate company that makes and sells a legitimate product. The Team does not sell a product, nor does it render a service. So I kept wondering, so what exactly IS this business? I was also concerned because the links between Team, Quixtar and Amway were not clearly spelled out, even when my husband and I asked directly.

May I ask where you who are criticizing MK getting YOUR facts? My facts are coming from teh upline who presented me with the plan, and the relatives who have since joined. So forgive me if I said something untrue--it's just what I have been told by those who are trying to get us to sign up.

 
At 2:19 PM, Blogger Jobless2007 said...

Exactly, hearsay. That's what I've heard from every single person that says Quixtar is a cult, or a scam, or whatever. "Well I heard...."
All teams are different. It's like the NCAA. There are many teams that are in the NCAA. All the teams have different playbooks. Quixtar has many teams and they all have different playbooks. My suggestion, don't check out the business per say, check out the people you're working with. Be a smart skeptic and stop listening to whatever everyone else says. And look at credible sources. Go to Better Business Beareu.

 
At 2:55 PM, Blogger Jobless2007 said...

I forgot to mention... do you really think that the person that was head of the US Chamber of Commerce (ran America's businesses) would be able to run a pyramid scheme? He stepped down in 2002 because his Quixtar business was going so well. Quixtar launched in 1999. He owns our business along with Rich DeVos. Look them up.

 
At 2:58 PM, Blogger Issa said...

Having re-read these comments, I would like to respectfully request that the name-calling end. I'm all about having a discussion, but draw the line at being rude to each other. It doesn't reflect well on ANY of the companies mentioned for us to behave in that way. Thanks in advance.

Again, I would like to reiterate that the way "the business plan" for The Team was presented to me left a lot of information out, stuff my husband and I had to dig up. I really didn't appreciate that dodginess--we had a genuine interest in it to begin with. No one felt inclined to tell us that to still receive your bonus check, you had to personally do 100PV a month, or approximately $300-400 in personal purchases. I asked the man doing the house plan whether there was a requirement for how much we needed to put in each month in order to receive all bonuses, checks, what have you, and he said NO.

As you said, Jobless, it really does depend on the person. I didn't care for this man's manipulativeness, and am very anxious about what will come of it for my friends and family who have gotten involved with him. I have a personal commitment in my business to work with integrity and caring, whether the people are my customers or team members, and whether they came to me as previous acquaintances or total strangers. That is simply the right thing to do.

I do have to argue with you, though, about the Better Business Bureau comment. It really doesn't take a lot to become a member in good standing with the BBB, and with a company of Quixtar's size, just like something along the lines of McDonald's or Wal-Mart, you are going to get the odd complaint--so even if they showed up on the BBB, you couldn't tell from that whether they were just cranky people with a beef, or legitimate concerns of a larger nature.

What other credible sources would you recommend? What else can I go on besides the testimony of those who have experienced it, from what I have experienced in dealing with the people around me who are involved, and with my husband's experience of going to one of these meetings and seeing firsthand what they talk about there?

 
At 3:02 PM, Blogger Issa said...

I am very well aware of DeVos and Van Andel, as I live 45 minutes south of Grand Rapids, MI. I am also aware of the lawsuits that Amway has faced. I don't really attribute good character to having a position in the U.S. government, call me crazy.

 
At 4:49 PM, Blogger Will said...

Issa, its unfortunate that who ever "showed the plan" to you was misleading, or not totally informative. But why would you base a decision on the company based on the behavior of One person you encountered? If someone has a question, I answer it. Simple as that. And yes, you have to do 100pv to get a bonus, but $300-400 is a bit high of an estimate. I do 100+pv every month for around $250-$300. But I'm getting the high PV stuff, the protein bars, the energy drinks, vitamins, etc.

If you really want some credible info on Q* as you asked, there are 2 well-known sites that IBOs know to promote... www.thisbiznow.com , and www.quixtarfacts.com.

As for the BBB comment, its just good common sense if you want to find out if something is a scam, is to call/check the BBB and see what they know about it.

Sorry if I got too defensive, its just I am tired of people passing the buck, and blame onto a company that is Totally ligit. Good luck in your Direct selling business too.

 
At 3:33 AM, Blogger Jesus Hates Quixtar said...

the average monthly income of an "active ibo is $115. i am not sure if they took expenses into account... i didn't read the whole document cuz i am sleepy... but i would guess that it DOESN'T include expenses because they would say the average monthly "profit" but i could be wrong.


btw only 66% of IBOs are "active" because of the high attrition rate.

http://www.quixtar.com/Documents/IWOV/VIS/010-en/PDF/SA-4400.pdf

the truth shall set you free.
good night children.

 
At 3:54 AM, Blogger Jesus Hates Quixtar said...

this guy was a diamond

http://donjlorencz.texerta.com/

 
At 11:24 AM, Blogger Jobless2007 said...

The average monthly income of $115 takes into account all the people that don't do anything with the business but are still IBOs. Obviously they aren't making any money if they're not doing anything. I have a question for you Jesus Hates Quixtar. Do you really think that all the legal staffs (lawyers) for Disney Store, Circuit City, Barnes and Noble, Nike, Adidas, etc. would have missed something that you would have found? I seriously doubt it. I don't think they'd be putting there store on our site if it wasn't legit. Hmmm. Go check and see how much debt our company has and how much they shared with IBOs. Go check and see who's #1 in Customer Service, #1 Repeat Sales, and #1 in Health and Beauty on the web. Go check and see how much of the Health and Beauty industry we own online. The plan is proven. That's obvious if you do your due diligence. The only variables are the people that decide to do it.

 
At 3:13 PM, Blogger Jobless2007 said...

Jesus Hates Quixtar - I went to the link you posted here. Wow! How ridiculous!! It's amazing how many bad apples there are out there. One thing on there said to ask someone to let you see there income statement! How many people do you know that just go around and flaunt how much money they make?!?!?! That's personal info. and nobody every does that! I'm sorry Issa, but I am very passionate about this business. I've expereinced great things with it. Not once has any of this crap every been. We have been in for about 2 1/2 years. It must be the team you were experiencing. That's crap!

 
At 11:20 PM, Blogger Jesus Hates Quixtar said...

What does circuit city, disney, or anyone else care that Quixtar is a scam?
Quixtar is simply a referral service for those companies, selling their products, or referring people to their websites to sell products. The fact that they do so lends no legitamacy to anything Quixtar does. I own part of a sneaker store in a mall... do you think Nike gives a shit about my business practices, whether I am legit etc? hell no. i just sell Nike products... quixtar is no different.

 
At 2:45 PM, Blogger Jobless2007 said...

Wahoo for you! I'm glad you have long hours, employees, customer service problems, theft possibly, payroll, and everything else that goes along with running a traditional business. I'm glad I own a business and don't have to deal with ANY of that. Good luck to you! I'll enjoy my retirement now and let you do all that work. Wait, did I say retirement? Oh yeah, did I mention I'm only 26? I get checks mailed to me every month still. Oh and I cash them every month... haven't gotten locked up yet due to a scam. How many people do you know that are retired in their 20s? I know a lot, and they're all in Quixtar or some other multi-level marketing. Did you know that this company is 2nd in creating millionaires next to Microsoft? Oh did I mention that my brother who I sponsored is making more money than I am? Hmmm.. That's backwords.... shouldn't the person at the top be making all the money? Wait that would be a pyramid! Didn't you say you own a shoe store? You have employees under you, right? Do they have the ability to make more money than you at the position they're in or do you always make the most? I think you're in a pyramid scheme...

I wouldn't trade this relaxation for anything. You can tell you have broke mentality.

 
At 3:52 PM, Blogger Issa said...

Okay, remember what I said about being respectful? If you guys have a beef with each other, please take it off my blog. I'm all for having a conversation here, but no meanness. Thanks.

 
At 6:07 PM, Blogger Aregon said...

My wife and I are "inactive" IBOs for the simple reason that I have decided to give my time (right now) to my family and our local church. That said, however, I know that Quixtar works, I have seen it, and many of our upline remained in contact with us for quite some time after we "dropped off the radar" as it were. We switched out of our original upline on their advice (which proves to me that they were looking out for our best interests instead of theirs) - some morality issues further up were causing divisions and what not. The "upright" guys warned us, and we took their advice.

All that said, I hold no animosity towards Amway/Quixtar, and may become active again after this season of our lives settles down a bit. It's about the people, and a good (or bad) upline can make (or break) your desire to do anything substantial in this business.

It seems to me though that as far as doing 100PV personally, that "personally" was either buying 100PV of stuff by yourself or the combination of:

1. PV of everything you bought
2. PV of everything customers bought
3. PV of downline < 100PV

So, when my wife and I were active and had 200PV a month or so from us buying the detergent, toothpaste and what not, plus the rest from our friends who liked the stuff too, plus our meager downline buying stuff for themselves (until they got > 100PV that is), we "personally" only bought about 50 or so PV for ourselves, and the remainder came from our customers.

So, theoretically, even the following could equal 100PV:

1. Personally buy 0PV
2. Customers buy 100PV

then you'd have 100PV and not buy a single thing. And, if I remember correctly, there was a lady Emerald (or some other high pin level) who got there just selling Artistry products. I think the bonus money was higher if you reached a pin level PV without any downline at all. If my wife just sold Artistry, and got 1000PV a month doing that, her bonus would be quite substantial.

 
At 9:59 PM, Blogger Jesus Hates Quixtar said...

jobless you are so far gone you are lost. you just spewed the "quixtar produces the 2nd most number of millionares next to microsoft" lie.

there's no saving you bro its too late. have fun walking the beaches of the world and don't forget to go diamond!

 
At 1:19 PM, Blogger Will said...

Hey, "Jesus hates sarcasm" you just spewed the infamous critic line "have fun walking the beaches of the world and don't forget to go diamond!"

Guess what... he has a Better chance than YOU!

He may strike out, he may hit one over the fence. But at least he's on the field. You're not even in the stands. You're at home in the Lazy Boy. Give jobless your address so he can send you a postcard with sand glued to it.

It's you who is lost... and who Has lost. Skeptical I can tolerate, ignorant, its a pet peeve.

 
At 1:09 PM, Blogger jerkler said...

Well that was some interesting reading.

However, I'm afraid I have to agree with Jobless. Quixtar is a legitimate business and anyone who has a problem with it simply doesn't have enough information to speak knowledgeably about it.

By the way Jesus doens't hate Quixtar. Jesus loves quixtar and he loves the person who calls himself "Jesus hates quixtar".

 
At 3:28 PM, Blogger Issa said...

wow, another hit, after all this time!

I would like to clarify, for anyone out there still following along, that my concern lies with a group called The Team (formerly known as Team of Destiny). The concept of The Team, or at least the main that was presented to me, is that you don't have to sell anything. Period. You are purchasing products for your own use, and encouraging others to sign up and do the same. Supposedly there are big discounts, etc. to be had by shopping online in this way, which, incidentally, means shopping on the Quixtar website.

So tell me why, if this is simply a "business" in name only--meaning you aren't selling a product or providing a service to anyone--why the "tools"? Why go to all these meetings and conference? What is there to learn about when supposedly all you're doing is shopping for yourself?

I am not arguing that Quixtar is not a legitimate business. It is. It exists, it's legal, and selling Quixtar/Amway/Alticor products is legal, too. I *am* concerned about The Team and the seemingly exorbitant costs involved simply to "shop for yourself as you usually would."

 
At 1:08 AM, Blogger Energized said...

Actually th client rule is a key factor in maintaining the legitamacy of the Quixtar opportunity. That rule says in order to profit from downline volume you must meet one of these 3 criteria: Service 10 customers or sell $100 of products to customers or sell 50PV of product to customers each month.

 

Post a Comment

<< Home